Mid Century Cadillacs

61-62 Cadillac Owners Group => General Discussions => Topic started by: Clewisiii on November 18, 2015, 09:09:09 PM

Title: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 18, 2015, 09:09:09 PM
I finally learned how to hammer the sheetmetal to get rid of the oil canning in the roof.  I was able to clean it up and sand it down to 1000 grit.  I figure i can hit it with a red pad to rough up before painting.

For the rest I have run out of money for a little while.  I hope to get the bushing and steering components as soon as I can.  I contacted Coil Spring Specialties but they never responded to my request for info on the springs.

I found the shop I will take my Trans to.  The guys were great and very easy to talk to about it.  They even pulled out a photo of a rose colored 61 that they had done last year.  For fun I sandblasted and painted the trans.  I know it will get beat up during rebuilding but I could not resist.  I will touch it up in the end.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 18, 2015, 10:26:31 PM
glad you got the roof figured out,it is a big panel to have flex on you

 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 22, 2015, 07:56:26 PM
I have decided to use my time to try to take care of some tedious details. I have decided to take care of body work priming and sanding of the fire wall. With few flat surfaces and sections of overlaped steel it is a pain.

Can anyone give me pointers on seam sealer. I think the factory felt the stuff was free considering how much they goobed on. How thick should it be. How else should the joint be.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 22, 2015, 10:43:47 PM
are you going for originality,or make it clean and tidy

if cleaning it up, I use proform(or any other brand I'm sure) brush on seam sealer
it comes in a quart or so sized  can
you can brush it on however you like
once it is close to curing,a rag with soaked lacquer thinner can be used to give it a smooth seam like you do with silicone around your bath tub or kitchen sink with your finger

I love the stuff, it hides a ton of sins and generally cleans up the looks of things and easy to use

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 23, 2015, 07:53:55 AM
I am going for clean and tidy. I just do not know what the clean seams should actually look like. 1/16 thick 1/8 thick. 1/4 wide 3/4 wide. Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 23, 2015, 09:39:01 PM
I just go until the seam is sealed up plus a little extra for safety  and call it a day
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 26, 2015, 09:35:07 AM
Wow. I just scared the he'll out of myself.

I needed to lower my car on the rotisserie, to get a better height to work on the firewall. Since I first set it up I have never changed the height of the car.

The rotissserie has a built in Jack on either end that lifts the mast.  I lifted one side a bit and pulled the large set pin. I started to releave pressure on the Jack and nothing. It did not go down. I tapped the mast with a hammer about a minute. Then boom. It instantly slid down a foot and a half all at once.

That was not what I intended to do. Scared the crap out of me.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Sixfins on November 26, 2015, 11:03:28 AM
Being scared is ok, as long as no one hurt or car damage. I took the neck if the 22 lb turkey, stuffed it between my legs and chased my wife all around the house. Her hands have stuffing on them and i chade her . Svards the shit out of her. Holliday tradition around here.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 26, 2015, 11:09:38 AM
So how do you follow that up Christmas.

Maybe I don't want to know.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Sixfins on November 26, 2015, 11:24:43 AM
You dont wanna know, your right. Lets just say some Jack Daniels and thos Xmas balls hanging on the door ring up a storm!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 26, 2015, 07:03:15 PM
You dont wanna know, your right. Lets just say some Jack Daniels and thos Xmas balls hanging on the door ring up a storm!

poor Jan!

she deserves a medal and a saint hood award!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 26, 2015, 07:05:06 PM
Wow. I just scared the he'll out of myself.

I needed to lower my car on the rotisserie, to get a better height to work on the firewall. Since I first set it up I have never changed the height of the car.

The rotissserie has a built in Jack on either end that lifts the mast.  I lifted one side a bit and pulled the large set pin. I started to releave pressure on the Jack and nothing. It did not go down. I tapped the mast with a hammer about a minute. Then boom. It instantly slid down a foot and a half all at once.

That was not what I intended to do. Scared the crap out of me.

I bet there was a underwear change involved also

I hate when things like that happen
like Art says, as long as no one got hurt
damaged ,while really sucks, can be repaired
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 28, 2015, 07:44:53 PM
Well my heads are really messed up. Covered in rust in top of cylinder, intake side, exhaust side, and water galley.  Exhaust side is actually flaking rust. But that can be cleaned up when I post it.

I am most worried about the tips of the cylinders. The valves are actually rusted shut. I assume the machine shop can recondition this area of the heads if I pay them enough. I do not want to mess up the valve seats so I do not want to mess with this area.

This is what it looked like after a little cleaning with a scotch brite. Al machine surfaces will need to be decked by the machine shop.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on November 28, 2015, 08:32:27 PM
Usually these engines can take a good deep boring. 0.060" is not impossible so any rust pitting in the cylinder walls should bore out. 

As far as the heads go, they are not hard to disassemble. Once the valve spring is compressed,  the keepers pop right out. Get the springs out of the way and squirt a little trans fluid and acetone around the stems and let soak. They'll free up.

New guides, valves, and a decking and you'll be back in business.

I saved a 390 once that was parked in a field with the hood open from and no air cleaner from 1988 to 2005. These engines can take a lot and be brought back.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 29, 2015, 01:01:54 PM
So at 7:30 this morning here in Michigan it was 25F. And I was in my front yard in gun shorts sandblasting I don't think you want to see pictures of that but here are the engine parts that I cleaned up and painted.

I blasted and cleaned the lower transmission covers but forgot to put them on the table. I guess they will wait till the engine gets rebuilt.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 29, 2015, 02:13:46 PM
I went ahead and Sandblasted the water gallery's and more crusty parts of the heads. Since everything will be machined and it is cast iron I am not to concerned. A large cloud of rust was blasted out.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Sixfins on November 29, 2015, 02:55:27 PM
Jesus clew your a brave man
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 29, 2015, 03:04:11 PM
When I looked into it the machine shop does it themselves as one of the cleaning steps. I don't want to pay them hourly rate for something I can do myself.

I am going to give them a bath in detergent then a dip in metal rescuer rust desolver to get anywhere I could not. Then a spray down with hour for storage till it gets to the machine shop.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 01, 2015, 12:48:38 PM
I managed to remove the valves from one of the cylinder heads. My valve spring compresser is a little to big. I had to close the screw all the way in to work. That made it somewhat unstable as I tried to remove the keepers.

I had to hammer out 4 of the valves. I do not think I will remove the valve guides. I will leave that for the machine shop.

Getting past all the clean up in the engine I feel a little better. The oil pan was very silvery when I dropped it. I was worried there was as lot of engine wear. However the crank and cam looked good. The cylinder walls looked good except for the surface rust. No evidence of walls scored. I assume that was all bearing wear I saw. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on December 01, 2015, 12:53:57 PM
The silvery in the oil pan is likely water in the oil.  From what I've seen of your car, it's been stored in a relatively damp environment judging by the condition of the chrome plating.  What you've found in your oil pan isn't surprising.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 driver on December 01, 2015, 01:22:05 PM
I went ahead and Sandblasted the water gallery's and more crusty parts of the heads. Since everything will be machined and it is cast iron I am not to concerned. A large cloud of rust was blasted out.

Wow nice job! Keep at it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 03, 2015, 12:09:36 PM
I wanted to research more on what I want for interior. I went to Shultz and Sons in Flint Michigan

https://www.chschultzandsons.com

I was hoping to see other leather options and really get a feel for the leathers. They only had color samples so I could not estimate its haptics.

So I decided I will go with the Cashmere leather from Eagle Ottowa. It is used in 2015 Lincoln. Unfortunately Shultz and sons cannot buy it direct anymore. So I will try to get it through purchasing at my work. Although we do not use that leather anywhere. I hope I can do a spot buy.

If I was not picky I could use this ski grey I have on hand. I have 100 hydes that I am not allowed to use in production. However the stuff feels like cardboard. I degenerate do not want it in my car. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 03, 2015, 12:11:32 PM
Definitely how did it get degenerate

Auto correct stinks.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 03, 2015, 12:45:32 PM
When I talked to them they said it will be possible to integrate shoulder straps into my seat backs.

I am going to work on getting 5 center belt detractors from the Lincoln as they already match the color.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Crispy on December 03, 2015, 11:51:56 PM
Lucky it just dropped on the jack & didn't spin around, out of balance & destroy everything.
Gotta build me one of those though, floorpan repair turnaround would be cut in half.

Lookin' good, hit 'er with manual labor until the wife lets you spend more money. ;)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 19, 2015, 06:28:49 PM
I have been slowly working through block sanding. I was having a lot of trouble keeping a good profile in these character lines around the Windows. I did not want to round them over.

In the end I came up with a method that works well. Though it is very time consuming.  But now it is so smooth and consistent. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 24, 2015, 10:06:31 AM
I streched tape from the rocket front to the rear. At the center the tape was 3/8 of an inch away from the rocker. I know for four door the rocker was two peice. The lead seam is about center of the rear door.   I think the guy on the driver side of the line was not very good at his job. The rocker lead seam did not replicate the rocker band well. And the quarter seam to the trunk was very sloppy.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 24, 2015, 10:07:14 AM
Why are they always sideways.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: South_paw on December 24, 2015, 02:42:00 PM
@Clewisiii send me a picture to my email please. Also let me know if the picture was from a Iphone. More than likely it's related to the forum auto re-size feature but I need to see one of your pics directly from you to figure it out. Thanks
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 24, 2015, 04:40:34 PM
Well since it was free I decided to take it. 7 full hydes of light grey. 2.5 hydes of indigo blue. Now I will need to decide if the carpet will be light blue or grey. For now I am leaning toward grey.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 13, 2016, 12:30:50 PM
Having everything fully disassembled has really helped me to understand the condition of everything independently.

I do not know what that means for my sanity going forward. If I overdo restoring one thing then it will really upset me installing it next to something I did not spend as much time on.

I have decided to take this year and collect things for my restoration. I now have two Fleetwood rear window trims. I have not decided if I am going to go original 61 painted or 63 stainless. Honestly the stainless is the easiest option when you consider painting and buffing that thin molding.

I have extra wheel disks now

Collecting chrome is going slow.

NOS light lenses are very expensive. Mine are ok. So if I buy more they will be NOS.

The specific items I want to buy are the side window trim pieces. Mine have rusted and I worry about restoration of thin chrome. It will be easy to start with clean metal and replate


Here is my dash pad with a swatch of the leather I got for door panel and seat inserts. I am thankful that my dash pad is in good condition. But there are bumps under the vinyl and one surface scratch. But I think recovering it with leather may be overkill.

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 03, 2016, 05:41:03 PM
Look. It is a thousand dollar bill.   Excited to start working again. But it will not be till next weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on March 03, 2016, 06:04:00 PM
Looks like some nice new suspension and steering bits. Cool.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62Caddee on March 04, 2016, 09:32:32 PM
Hey Clewisiii, looks good.  Where did you source the suspension parts?  Do you know what brand they are (Moog, etc.)?  I'm getting ready to buy all suspension parts for my 62 sdv for a complete rebuild and would appreciate the info.  Thx!

Brad
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 05, 2016, 06:16:53 AM
I bought from Falcon for front end.
Old parts for rear end.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62Caddee on March 05, 2016, 11:54:15 PM
Sorry, whats falcon?  Is old parts the same as OPGI?  Thanks again!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: themotherbrain on March 06, 2016, 09:18:02 AM
Falconglobal parts and old parts are sellers. Opgi is a different dealer. They can be found on ebay I know at least. I bought the same parts from the same sellers for my coupe.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 06, 2016, 04:20:24 PM
More evidence that my car had some form of an accident.

Here is the list
Passenger fender lower was leaded and paint did not match
Driver fender trim was very messed up. I think this fender was replaced and they tried to save the trim
Ball joints did not match side to side
Springs did not match side to side
Driver spring missing insulator
Passenger lower shock bolt hole deformed
Gauges in driver lower control arm
Deformed passenger upper bushing on A arm

I am trying to decide if I care enough to replace the lower control arm
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 12, 2016, 02:28:41 PM
Well here is my driver's side exhaust manifold.

Is there any point in trying to weld and save it. How easy will it be to find a new one and at what cost. If I buy used am I just inheriting someone else's problems
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Cattle Axe on March 12, 2016, 02:45:13 PM
I didn't think you will find a new one. Good used ones are out there.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 12, 2016, 06:34:04 PM
Pre assembly of steering linkage. I need to paint the control arms so that I can push on the ball joints and bushings.

I hoped I would be able to save the control arm rubber bumpers. But I do not like them as is. No harm or big deal to just replace them now.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 12, 2016, 06:51:54 PM
Lower control arms
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 12, 2016, 06:55:37 PM
OK time for me to show off my youth and inexperience. I have never worked with drum brakes before. The rears were easy to disassemble. But I cannot figure out how to get the front drums off the spindles. I took off the center nut and bearing. But that was not it. It looks like there are locking rings on the studs.

I will probable explore YouTube to find some pointers.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 12, 2016, 07:05:19 PM
 So the answer was to smack it with a bigger hammer. I had a bigger hammer.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on March 12, 2016, 07:34:05 PM
Well here is my driver's side exhaust manifold.

Is there any point in trying to weld and save it. How easy will it be to find a new one and at what cost. If I buy used am I just inheriting someone else's problems

find a new one
hard to repair cast properly


on the steering parts,POR 15  makes a really cool bare cast iron colour
looks like fresh cast  cast iron without the rusting
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 12, 2016, 08:22:34 PM
Well actually it is not so easy to find those lower bumpers. Steele lists a set for 1960 Cadillac with air suspension.

Anyone know if they are close.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 15, 2016, 07:47:44 PM
So my next step is to purchase a new welder. The passenger side lower control arm mount hole is deformed. I drove in a copper rod into the correct location. I will weld around it to reform the hole.

That will allow me to reinstall the lower control arms.
I need to finish disassembling the upper control arms. Trying to push out the bushings without the right spacer is a pain.

Left to order will be shocks and springs. The previous conversations Coil Spring Specialties was the best for "correct" springs. I think I would like nos shocks. I really want to create that original Cadillac ride. But since I have never experienced the original ride maybe it does not matter.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on March 16, 2016, 08:09:35 AM
The closest you will find to original shocks are Delco Pleasurizers.  They are an oil filled shock.

The original shocks to this car were oil filled with a charge of R-12 to keep the oil from foaming.

Rear Delco Pleasurizers pop up on eBay from time to time and are fairly common to find.  Front sets are a different story.  It took me 3 years to find mine.  They interchange with Corvairs, so that crowd has pretty much snapped them up.

I still have the factory shocks under my toolbox that will get rebuilt and make it back on the car someday.

Gas charged are definitely firmer (I can feel the difference) but not that bad.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on March 16, 2016, 08:48:34 AM
So my next step is to purchase a new welder. The passenger side lower control arm mount hole is deformed. I drove in a copper rod into the correct location. I will weld around it to reform the hole.

I highly recommend the Miller Autoset series. I have a 180 which has been replaced by the 211. There is also a new lighteweight 190 but it is 240V only while the 211 is 120/240. The 212 welds up to 3/8" material. The autoset feature is so convenient you will wonder how you ever got on without it.   
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 25, 2016, 09:28:09 AM
Well I set up a table and some scrap steel to practice with my new welder. The plate I grabbed to test seemed really thick to me. I only wanted to test on something similar to the sheet metal. So I grabbed a piece of the rocker I cut out. It was the same thickness. I love having that much steel.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 25, 2016, 02:13:12 PM
I tried stitching my floor pan holes closed. No good. As I closed up one upon grinding it smooth it opened five others. So I guess I will be using my patch panel after all.

That is a scary hole though.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 25, 2016, 03:08:13 PM
Well clean up the fit and it will be welded in place. I still do not like the profile.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on March 25, 2016, 10:37:52 PM
Well clean up the fit and it will be welded in place. I still do not like the profile.

just be careful welding that piece in
it looks to be galvanized and welding that will produce some serious poisonous gasses
you will see little white floaty things in the air,that is the coating burning off
don't breathe the crap

grind all areas where you will be welding  completely
are you using mig gas of fluxcore wire?
if using flux core,make sure you have the heat cranked up high as you can without burning through
I hate welding flux core
mig gas makes a much nicer weld

in welding up holes,get yourself a block of copper to hold behind the hole and weld away
the weld will not stick to the copper and makes a nice heat sink so you don't burn through
I have welded up to around  2'' holes using this method
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 26, 2016, 06:04:33 AM
Yes I cleaned everything.  I flattened out a piece of copper pipe.  Holding it in place with magnets.

But I must say weld through primer is a joke.  It cost $20 a can but did not work at all.  I tried it on the structure support that would be hidden after the weld.  None of those plug welds had any penetration.  At least it made it easy to pop back up and clean off.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 26, 2016, 10:57:42 AM
OK first it was a mistake only getting the two foot gas bottle. That will be gone just from the floor pan.

Second. I need to improve my welding clothing. A few splatters went through my coat and rolled down my arm. A couple of balls landed along side my feet in my shoes.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: South_paw on March 26, 2016, 11:05:13 AM
OK first it was a mistake only getting the two foot gas bottle. That will be gone just from the floor pan.


That bottle should last a good while. What do you have it set at? And are you shutting the valve after each use? I find that helps a lot.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 26, 2016, 11:20:43 AM
Yes I am shutting it off. The bottle started at 1500. It is now 900. I run it at 15. The guy I bought the bottle from said it should last 3 hours of straight welding.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on March 26, 2016, 02:22:53 PM
Yes I am shutting it off. The bottle started at 1500. It is now 900. I run it at 15. The guy I bought the bottle from said it should last 3 hours of straight welding.

I have the taller bottle as a main and a 2 ft as a backup

I have done a lot of welding on the 2 ft bottle
sounds like your machine may have a gas leak
I have had a regulator leak right out the back before,was hard to find and I was wondering why I was so hard on gas

I usually run my gas at 20-30,depends on if I am welding inside or outside and how new the metal is
I like to run my machine hot and keep the wire speed up
and I can weld faster resulting in less warp
I find it is better with old metal that may not be  00% clean,and run gas a little higher on dirty metal also
I also keep my air blow gun handy and cool it down right after I nail it with weld
little tricks I have learned in the couple million miles of wire I have welded


as for clothing, I just love getting a hot slag ball roll down your back and settle in the butt crack, really lets you know you are alive I tell you!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2016, 03:10:00 PM
Last bits in prepping the suspension. Pressing out the control arm bushings. Through trial and error I figured out a process that works with my tools. Unfortunately that error part caused me to bend in the first A arm slightly. So I will have to figure out how to get it straight again.

I started purchasing the hardware to reinstall everything. But a few sizes are on order. And I still have not figured out my shocks yet. If not original I am at least looking for a modern hydraulic shocks.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2016, 04:43:08 PM
OK A arms stripped and straightend. I need to do a little sandblasting and paint and I can reassemble. Unfortunately it has decided to snow again in Michigan. I am told up to 3 inches. So I do not think I will do it this weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2016, 07:31:48 PM
Continuing with the suspension.  The passenger lower control arm mounting hole was distorted. I assume this is from my suspected accident.

I put a 1/2 inch copper pipe in the hole backed by a copper plate. The idea was to weld to the pipe then clean up the weld. Unfortunately I could not get a good angle with the MIG welder. No penetration.  I will need to reset and try with an arc welder.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on April 02, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
probably better off just to weld up the hole completely and re drill it
you will need to turn your mig up to nuclear unless it is a large mig to weld up these a arms!

some nice 6013 or 7018 will work nice with  the arc welded
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 03, 2016, 06:09:26 PM
Cleaned up suspension. Ready for installation. Just need to finish collecting the hardware.

But a question. When I removed my A arms the two bolts on top were opposing. One side bolted from the top the other from the bottom. Was there a reason for this. Or does it really not matter.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 04, 2016, 07:39:21 PM
Here you can see the bolts on the A arms.  Opposite directions.
I am not sure if these were previously removed.
Any ideas if this is correct.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on April 04, 2016, 08:26:00 PM
If I recall correctly my car is all up.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on April 04, 2016, 09:55:02 PM
If I recall correctly my car is all up.

agree with Dan,should be all up
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on April 04, 2016, 10:10:31 PM
Yep, should be pointing up.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 05, 2016, 05:56:41 PM
OK I do not want to do the next one until I can get some feedback from you guys.

I pressed in this bushing to the collar. It pressed on easily. But it looks off center. Is it natural. Or should I just try to balance it out.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 05, 2016, 06:13:36 PM
Never mind. I found the old bushing and answered my own question.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 05, 2016, 06:48:39 PM
Well a little upset with the A arm bushings.

The flange bent while trying to press the first one in. I took it back out. Straightend it then reamed out the hole a little to loosen the fit. But I will not touch it again till tomorrow.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on April 05, 2016, 10:13:13 PM
Well a little upset with the A arm bushings.

The flange bent while trying to press the first one in. I took it back out. Straightend it then reamed out the hole a little to loosen the fit. But I will not touch it again till tomorrow.

is there not a step in the bushing to press up to?

I would ad a tack weld or two with an arc welder to make sure the bushing doesn't move
I tacked all my bushings in my rear trailing arms 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 06, 2016, 05:49:18 AM
I will show a picture later.  This piece never pressed in more then 1/8th before the flange started to bend around the press cup.
There does seem to be a step but it is in the wrong area.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on April 06, 2016, 09:00:14 PM
pressing in from correct side?

when I did my rear arms, I made up a spacer to keep the arm from squashing

62 coupe had an incredible design for a spacer
let me see if I can remember correctly what he told me

I think he used a piece of pipe just slightly bigger than the bushing that the bushing would fit into
he made it the correct thickness to fit between the a arm bushing holes
he cut the pipe in half to make 2 c shape spacers
tape one side you just cut  to make a hinge ,think pac man!

insert spacer and press in bushing
spacer can be taken out in 2 pieces easily

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on April 09, 2016, 05:16:28 PM
That bushing is definitely not installed correctly. I will post some pictures in a few hours.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 09, 2016, 05:45:20 PM
If you are talking about the rear trailing arms I already fixed that. The upper a arm bushings are going much better after cleaning out the cups on the stamping.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 09, 2016, 05:53:20 PM
Here is the final set up on the rear trailing arms.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 09, 2016, 05:55:38 PM
These are the new a arm bushings. As you can see they are thinner steel then original. Plus the new ones have a step in the formation that the old did not have. After sanding out the cups they do fit however.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on April 09, 2016, 06:33:42 PM
Glad you sorted it out Carl.

On another topic, is your firewall still bare as in nothing bolted to it other than your rotisserie? I was wondering if you could post a photo of the area around the brake booster mounting point. I am going to convert my car to Hydroboost and don't have any photos of a naked firewall to ponder over.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 09, 2016, 08:04:47 PM
Ask and ye shall receive. Images in Technical

But another question. In the instructions it said make note of left and right ball joint. I looked and the ball joints had the same number so I thought I issue.

Well there is a difference. They are the same but have a collar that is reversible putting a cut out on one side or other. Now I need to know what side should the cut out be on. Facing front of car or rear.

I assume rear but base that on nothing.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 10, 2016, 08:27:41 AM
So I realized I never removed the spring retainers. I don't think this is a problem. Is there anything in that joint that would need to be serviced.

Also looking at the diagrams I see a lot of lock washers called out. I saved all hardware and there was little to no lock washers used on this car. Easy to add back on. Question is should I.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 10, 2016, 08:49:09 AM
OK I answered my own question again about the A arm ball joint. When you put the A arm on the frame it becomes very obvious that the cut out angles to the back.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on April 10, 2016, 09:01:00 AM
Yep, the lower end of the spindle is forward of the upper which gives the steering geometry the right castor. That means the lower ball joint would aim rearward slightly to point at the upper ball joint. I would use lock washers where indicated or change to stover nuts. You could also loctite them.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Sixfins on April 10, 2016, 09:33:00 AM
Carl, this cantering of the upper and lower arms and ball joints is what stopped the front end in hard stops and for that matter slow too from bobbing up and down. In some situations in hard stop the reciprocating bounch could make the front tire come off the ground. This combined with cantering of the rear leafs  stopped the car, ( greatly reduced) the hopping in the rear end. These changes made the 61 the first truely modern car. Everything before underneath was really a 40s car which were really an updated late 30s car.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 10, 2016, 12:50:25 PM
Well I got lucky cleaning up the threads on the strut rods. 3/4 16 was the largest tap I had. But man it is a pain getting the old nuts off 6 inches of threads.

I just stuck them in the fire for a bit. Then clamped the nuts in a vise while a rod was ran through the bolt holes for leverage. Took about an hour all together.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 10, 2016, 04:48:51 PM
It is always the little things. This far but I am still missing the spring insulators and this mysterious spacer for AC cars. I see in the service manual the mention of this spacer. But it has no more information. If anyone has a parts book and can give me more information on this spacer it will help a lot.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 11, 2016, 08:02:30 PM
Ha ha ha ha ha. I found it. I did not remember removing a shim. But I found it. Now I just need the insulators. But I have to ask. Is there a need for me to get dimensions on this shim. Or do most people not care.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on April 11, 2016, 11:46:43 PM
I'm glad you found the inslators. I can't comment on the shim accutately as i am unfamiliar with it but could it be there to compensate for the weight of the AC system positioned over the right front of the car?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 12, 2016, 05:34:35 AM
It is there for the weight of AC.  I do not know if they are available now if anyone else is restoring a car or adding AC to a vehicle
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Perk2 on April 12, 2016, 08:03:53 AM
Take accurate measurements and photos Carl in case someone here needs to fabricate or can make for others if needed, then post the doc in the archives.
You have been busy!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Cody on April 13, 2016, 09:23:38 AM
Love seeing you build up. It is helping me understand what parts I need to look at as I refresh mine.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 13, 2016, 09:58:13 AM
I really am enjoying myself.  I don't have a family so it gives me something to do in the evenings. My grandma is easy to take care of because she just sits there watching the game show network

The only annoying thing is that my bank account cannot keep up with my progress in the build.  In two or three weeks I think I will need to take some time off.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 13, 2016, 08:16:45 PM
OK some of these parts are cleaning up much better then I thought they would. But not all are good enough considering how much work I will have into the rest of the car.

Does anyone know how to disassemble the switch blocks. I need to clean them but I cannot whole.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 13, 2016, 08:29:56 PM
It is things like this that are so close but so far.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on April 13, 2016, 08:30:46 PM
I rebuilt some switches from a friends 65. You need to bend the steel tabs back and the innards will then come free. There is an insulating layer of plastic between the switch and the contacts. It is essentially a sheet that separates the two layers. When the switch is rocked it pushes against the plastic layer which pushes the contact points together. Pretty weird but they work. The contacts get pitted and the sheet and other bits wear out so that they no longer make good contact. The problem only gets worse as the arcing begins.

To rebuild my friends I made a new insulating layer out of some suitable plastic. His had been apart many times and were a real mess.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 13, 2016, 09:12:04 PM
 All but the driver are cleaned up. We will see how picky I am after I start getting the bill for rechroming these pieces.

I will need to set up some time to disassemble and clean those switches. I want to do it once. So if there is the possibility they are worn I will attempt to reduce them all.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 21, 2016, 05:16:01 PM
Finally ordered my Spring insulators from Steele Rubber products.  Rubber the right way was about a dollar cheaper but 8 dollars shipping each.  Steele was free shipping.

I had bought sway bar bushings through the auto parts store.  They are not the right shape at all.  So I ordered another set.


On another note I saw a guy on you tube doing yellow Zinc at home.  I think I might try to do this.

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 23, 2016, 07:57:04 PM
Polishing Pits is Painful. What alliteration.

Can anyone tell me if the wiper escutcheons are common with any other cars. It might make the easier to replace then rechrome.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 26, 2016, 01:56:23 PM
I am turning into one of those people. I have spent just about $100 on bolts so far and now I am upset that they are not the same look or style as original.

Here is my assumption. Ignore it for now. Do the big things and get the car back together looking nice. And driving. Then slowly change the fasteners over time. Only the ones that bother me.

I think that is the best bet to preserve my sanity.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 26, 2016, 08:13:34 PM
Springs in any way you can.

I used Coil Spring compressors to get the spring on the lower AArm.  But because of the amount of spring that sits in the frame I cannot use this method for full install.

I will use a ratchet strap to pull it into the frame so that I can close the lower a arm.

I hope to have this one done by the weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on April 27, 2016, 09:18:00 PM
Springs in any way you can.

I used Coil Spring compressors to get the spring on the lower AArm.  But because of the amount of spring that sits in the frame I cannot use this method for full install.

I will use a ratchet strap to pull it into the frame so that I can close the lower a arm.

I hope to have this one done by the weekend.

bring them to a spring shop and have them bound with plastic banding like how you tie stuff to a pallet
you install them compressed ,install your upper and lower ball joints then you cut the banding
did that a bunch of yrs back on a buddies rear mustang coils, works awesome
I have also done similar to front springs on other cars I have changed springs on

it is pretty straightforward when you have the car assembled and use a floor jack to jack up the arm,but when the car is apart and light,different story
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 28, 2016, 07:19:31 AM
That would be very convenient. I will look into that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 28, 2016, 07:24:28 PM
It worked. But very sketchy. I have never tightened wratchet straps to that degree. I was lifting the entire frame ratcheting. I had people sitting on it to help.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: South_paw on April 28, 2016, 08:17:19 PM
Nice work Carl. I'm sorry I missed your post about compressing the springs. There is a very easy way to do this. All you need is a floor jack and a chain.

First, put the spring in position. Then put the jack in position as you normally would.

Take the chain and put it over the top of the chassis directly above the spring area, now run that chain under the chassis of the floor jack making a loop. Connect the loop with a grade 8 bolt and nut.

Now when you begin to raise the jack, the car chassis is anchored to the jack by the chain. The only thing that can happen is the spring compresses. Works great, super easy. Just make sure you have a quality floor jack and a good chain. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 28, 2016, 08:22:50 PM
Well I will try that on the other side.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 04, 2016, 04:55:41 PM
It is just a dream. But sometimes a dream is all you need.

We had a grey rainy day in Michigan today.  And someday I think my car will look beautiful in the rain. The look of the raindrops beading and running off the finished paint job. The overcast sky making the York blue appear black at first. But as the skies clear the blue shines and splits through the water prisms as they roll across the finish. 

Just a dream.  But give me three years and it will be a reality.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on May 05, 2016, 12:04:36 AM
Carl, without a heated garage, it took me 4 years to do my body job and enough of the mods to get back on road. There were many days that I wondered what I had gotten into. I've been back on the road for a little over 4 years now. It was definitely worth it. Keep going as you are and you are going to have one beautiful car that you will enjoy for a very long time.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on May 06, 2016, 09:23:58 PM
It is just a dream. But sometimes a dream is all you need.

We had a grey rainy day in Michigan today.  And someday I think my car will look beautiful in the rain. The look of the raindrops beading and running off the finished paint job. The overcast sky making the York blue appear black at first. But as the skies clear the blue shines and splits through the water prisms as they roll across the finish. 

Just a dream.  But give me three years and it will be a reality.

never give up on your dreams!
 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 14, 2016, 05:08:46 PM
Lucked out. Saw a 61 firewall insulation selling on eBay 30 min before the auction ended. Bid then looked up the part number. It was a 62 Cadillac. And really did not look like my original. I should have known but got excited.

Luckily I was out bid last minute. Stopped me from making a mistake.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 29, 2016, 12:59:00 PM
I finally welded up that whole for passenger lower control arm.  Considering how tight of an area it was I think I did a good job. 

I did use my MIG welder.  I did not think it had enough power for frame steal.  But at half power I blew away a half an inch of steel.  I had to dial it back and fix it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 30, 2016, 11:11:11 AM
Well the jack and chain method did not work.  The spring is just to tall. Half way through and the whole thing would tip sideways. 

A threaded rod and part of an old leaf spring worked great.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 31, 2016, 09:26:06 PM
Ok look at that picture just above.  Notice the bumper on the upper control arm.

I thought the control arms were universal from side to side.  That only the ball joint was different.

 But as I look at where the bumper is hitting the frame it seems to far forward.  I think maybe these are not symmetrical but slightly biased.

Does anyone have experience with this.  I am going to try to take measurements to verify my suspicion.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on June 01, 2016, 09:11:23 AM
The control arms are interchangeable. It looks like the pivot shaft needs to be turned around so that it locates the upper control arm closer to the centre line of the car. In your photo, the upper control arm is being pushed outboard.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 02, 2016, 06:09:44 PM
Look at the twist on the shaft for the pitman arm.  It must have taken a lot of torque.  More proof of my past accident.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 02, 2016, 06:21:02 PM
F#$%. S$+& son of an insurance salesman. 

You are correct. The shafts need to be rotated. At first I thought no big deal. Compress the spring in place the unbolt and rotate.  But the bolts are behind the springs so the actually need to be removed. 

Plus the pressure is really doing a number on those rubber bumpers.  I may need new ones.  I never heard if the other guys kanter kit came with bumpers.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 03, 2016, 06:56:17 PM
Well I rotated those shafts.  But one of the bolts did not like being torqued a second time.

So I will get what I need at the hardware store tomorrow. 

My threaded rod for compressing the springs is a little worse for wear.  I will pick up a new one before I put the springs back in. 

I am also looking at the strut rod bushings.  The rubber has a big side and a little side.  If the big side is in the frame there is not enough thread for the rod to position correctly.  However from my pictures it looks like the little side was out.  Maybe it does not matter.  If anyone knows differently please let me know. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 04, 2016, 03:55:27 PM
Quick question.  I dropped one of my vacuum chambers and now I can hear something rattling in there.   I do not think there is a component in there.  But maybe 55 years of gunk that has clumped together.   I think I would make it worse if I tried to clean it.   Any insite on this.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 04, 2016, 05:44:39 PM
Question about the air cleaner. There is a formation to the bottom. I assume this is for clearance to linkage. What is the correct orientation for this. 

My graphics were to the right of the opening. But I have seen this both ways.  Which is preferred.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on June 04, 2016, 07:24:46 PM
This is the correct air cleaner orientation.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 04, 2016, 07:44:25 PM
Thank you Dan.  I wish you had AC   that would help with my wiring.  I have looked at Perks car but he does not have AC either.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 05, 2016, 01:38:34 PM
Steering in place. But not adjusted or tightened.  The pitman arm has been painted and drying.  I do not know where center is on the steering gear.  I will figure it out. 

No point in doing anything with alignment.  But what all is adjusted in alignment.  Is it stabilizer links. Tie rods. And camber eccentrics.

What would the stabalizer link positions be.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 06, 2016, 04:12:10 PM
I painted my air cleaner and I hate it. 

I sprayed on sandals primer but because of the profile I just used a scotch brite to sand it down.  All it did was polish the unevenness.

I will sandblast the lid and try again with block sanding.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on June 07, 2016, 10:15:35 PM
I painted my air cleaner and I hate it. 

I sprayed on sandals primer but because of the profile I just used a scotch brite to sand it down.  All it did was polish the unevenness.

I will sandblast the lid and try again with block sanding.

try wrapping some paper around a scothbrite pad, I do it all the time ,that way you will actually sand the primer down,not just polish it
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 11, 2016, 06:32:42 AM
There is wisdom among a multitude of counselors.

Again I want to thank you all.  I spent a year taking my car apart.  But that is the easy part.
I have now spent the first half of this year collecting pieces and putting it back together.

Next steps
. Finish rear end                                  $200
. Drive shaft   carrier bearing u joints  $500
. Brake kits and lines                           $1200
. Engine Rebuild                                  $4000
. LH manifold                                      $200
. Exhaust                                            $600
. Body Mounts                                    $600

I hope to have all of this done by the time the snow melts next year.
I do not think my budget will allow me to work faster then that.

This will allow me to put the body back on by next spring.
These are my plans.  But plans and life change.  Hey you need a goal or you will never do anything.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 11, 2016, 10:07:39 AM
Is there any benefit in replacing the wheel lugs while the axle is apart.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 11, 2016, 06:44:42 PM
Well I just need to make an adapter plate for my press. The seals and gaskets will not be in till the end of next week.  So no hurry.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 16, 2016, 09:48:09 PM
I really feel like I have ADD working on this Car.  I cannot do one thing at a time.  I just ordered a Caswell plating kit.  I hope to restore all of my yellow chromate parts.

Question on the carb.  Was it yellow.  It appeared the authenticity manual said it was yellow.  But I have never seen one this color.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 23, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
I just wanted to see something blue. It makes it look like there is progress when there is not.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on June 23, 2016, 07:59:29 PM
Now that's progress! 😀
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on June 23, 2016, 08:04:30 PM
awesome
nothing like a splash of colour to reignite the passion for working on your car!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 23, 2016, 08:27:54 PM
But on actual progress. I pressed on the axel bearings tonight. One axel is longer then the other and it was nearly to long for my press.  I had to. Compress the jack by 1/4 of an inch to get it on.  Either tomorrow or Saturday morning I will be buying new nuts and washers for reassembly. I hope my nut and bolt shop keeps copper washers on hand.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 29, 2016, 04:57:10 PM
Well the rear end is done. Brakes are next. But that will be $2000. So it will be a couple of months.  I will continue cleaning under hood parts and plate my brake and hood hardware. 

That should get me through the summer.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Chris_Oz on June 29, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
But on actual progress. I pressed on the axel bearings tonight. One axel is longer then the other and it was nearly to long for my press.  I had to. Compress the jack by 1/4 of an inch to get it on.  Either tomorrow or Saturday morning I will be buying new nuts and washers for reassembly. I hope my nut and bolt shop keeps copper washers on hand.

Hi,

I wish I had the time and skill to go this far, you will have a fantastic car when done.

Question.

Did you need to heat the lock ring to press it on?
I am about to do the rear end on my car, bearings, brakes, suspension bushes, ball joint etc.
The press I can use is not very big (strong) I was thinking I can warm them up beofre fitting.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on June 29, 2016, 11:34:59 PM
no need to warm them,and shouldn't need too large a press
if you do want to make it easier, place them in a pot of boiling water

I installed mine yrs ago using axle as a slide hammer and a piece of tubing just big enough for the axle to fit in and long enough for the axle not to poke out the other side
I lifted the axle up a foot and dropped it,the weight of the axle pressed the bearing into place after a few drops
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 30, 2016, 06:13:16 AM
I used the larger press available at harbor freight. The only slight issue I had was the longer axle nearly hit the lower cross member keeping the legs of the press together. But it just cleared.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 01, 2016, 08:05:32 PM
Well my floor pan is in.  It is a little nasty but with a little grinding it should be fine. 

This was mi first time using a MIG welder.  The replacement rocker panel should be better. 

I don't think I have the fabrication skills to repair the bottoms of the doors. But if I get a bead roller and a set of shrinker stretchers I would really like to try.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 03, 2016, 09:47:13 PM
Well I wanted to make a mock up of my interior combination.  I also wanted to see what sewing blind pleats would be like.   Just for fun and to get an idea. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 04, 2016, 06:32:23 AM
I begin posts with the word "Well" alot.
Now that I realize it I am going to work on that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 12, 2016, 05:32:53 PM
Tell me what is going on here. I know someone said the ignition in 61 is a one year only. Is this light box why.

The one on with the housing is from my Fleetwood. The one on the left is from my parts car.  The parts car had a light bulb hanging.

Was this ignition a replacement without the light housing.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Nadeem on July 13, 2016, 10:19:33 AM
Fantastic thread, thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 13, 2016, 08:03:46 PM
OK I have asked this question before. But now that I am closer I am going to ask again.
Drive shaft

I marked all the section for alignment on reassembly.
I plan on taking my drive shaft to a shop to have them check it and reassemble u joints. I will supply them with a new carrier bearing and housing   

This section of the shaft appears to be two peices that may telescope inside each other.  I actually don't know what it does. I was told that some shops recommended replacing this with a solid section.  Some have said don't do it.

Can anyone let me know what their experience or advise would be.  What is the purpose for this set up. What is in there.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Cattle Axe on July 13, 2016, 08:55:02 PM
it is 2 piece shaft rubber coupled.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on July 14, 2016, 12:11:57 AM
Keep the coupling if you can. The shaft in shaft coupling is designed to soak up some of the harmonic resonance. I wish I still had mine.


Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 16, 2016, 02:15:51 PM
Annoying day today. Trying to get the last few supplies to start my zinc and yellow chromate plating.  I just cannot catch a break with people being out of supplies or just ignorant of my requests.

I was going to use light bulbs to regulate my amperage for plating. I needed bases and bulbs of different milliamps.

The guy at RadioShack said they did not sell them. Then when i found them on his shelf he just stared at me. Started collecting the supplies and was a little short. I asked if they had more. He looked at the shelf I just took them from and said no. 

I went to Harbor Freight to pick up a parts tumbler for bolts.  The lady charged me for it then called to have one brought up. They were out.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Chris_Oz on July 17, 2016, 04:12:34 PM
Hi,

When I swapped my transmission out for a TH700R, I needed to shorten the tail shaft and replace the front yolk, upon inspection of the tail shaft, the 2 piece section you show on my tails haft was twisted by around 20 degree, putting the uni joints out of phase, which would explain the slight vibration I had between 45-55 mph.

I had it replaced with a solid section, new HD uni joints, new center carrier bearing, new front yolk.

It is fine, I have no vibrations now, I have had her up to about 85 mph and its smooth all the way.

If you can leave it, I would, it does perform a task, I doubt Cadillac put it in for fun, but my car drives fine without it.

I love the level of detail you are going to, great build.

Chris
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 17, 2016, 04:48:31 PM
Well thank you for the info.

Wisdom is found in a multitude of counselors.

As to the level of detail I guess we all cut corners in our own way. I have learned that I am impatient with welding.

I bet I will be dropping the ball a lot when it comes to reinstalling all the hardware inside the door.   

My Fleetwood will never be valuable. I know that. So instead of value I am working with pride in mind. No one is dumb enough to put this much effort into a four door Fleetwood. And that is to my benefit. If I hold my restoration up against other restored Fleetwood's I hope I will be head and shoulders above them in quality and detail. Even if it will not be all original.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on July 17, 2016, 09:54:31 PM
Well thank you for the info.

Wisdom is found in a multitude of counselors.

As to the level of detail I guess we all cut corners in our own way. I have learned that I am impatient with welding.

I bet I will be dropping the ball a lot when it comes to reinstalling all the hardware inside the door.   

My Fleetwood will never be valuable. I know that. So instead of value I am working with pride in mind. No one is dumb enough to put this much effort into a four door Fleetwood. And that is to my benefit. If I hold my restoration up against other restored Fleetwood's I hope I will be head and shoulders above them in quality and detail. Even if it will not be all original.

love your dedication Carl
you are building it for the right reasons,for YOU to enjoy!!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 22, 2016, 09:06:16 PM
I think I got lucky. A coworkers husband has agreed to take my glove box, and the one from my parts car, to his shop and have them reflocked. 

But I need to clean them up and prep for the process.

Sanding all the old stuff off is a mess.  But putting the new stuff on is a mess as well. I will be able to skip that step.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on July 23, 2016, 08:30:19 AM
Nice attention to detail Carl.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 23, 2016, 01:41:11 PM
I am quite certain I will be using a local transmission shop for my rebuild.  I don't think I know enough yet to do that one myself.

But for fun I have been pricing out the rebuild from other places.  This one came from California.

Sir,
      Cost of the complete overhaul is $3985, it takes 16 days to complete, shipping can be done via shipfreightcenter.com say "round trip". Ask for "lift gate for pick up only".
Strap down to pallet, do not have any part of unit hang over pallet. 
Weight 320 girth.   36 X 22 X 21.  must be drained. Garbage placed over unit, favor RH side of pallet w unit to protect both levers.
All restoration transmissions must be prepaid check written to my name only:
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 24, 2016, 11:53:33 AM
Those glove box liners are fiber filled plastic.  I do not think it is fiber glass.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 24, 2016, 01:55:32 PM
OK. For those who wanted to know, which is probably very few of you.

The old flocking is hard to get off
I tried solvent. Did not work
Tried sanding. Difficult profile.

But sandblasting lightly does work. Very lightly
Once you break through the flock surface, what is underneath sands very easy.

I have both prepped and in my car. I will hand them off on Monday. But then I go on vacation so I won't get them back for two weeks.

We talked about the different pins. Original used a hole records the top with an offset pin.  The new version has a second set of holes an inch lower. This allows straight pins into guides.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 24, 2016, 06:31:11 PM
I am still an impatient welder. But it is getting a lot better. A little grinding and body filler and this will be a good panel.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 06, 2016, 06:40:20 PM
This is my 666th comment. Thought I would take this time to point out that when my car was parked in 1979 the trip odometer was on its 666th mile.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 09, 2016, 04:16:53 PM
The flocking is done. They look great.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on August 09, 2016, 09:40:09 PM
The flocking is done. They look great.

that looks flocking awesome!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 14, 2016, 01:03:51 PM
I am beginning to think that I take things to far.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 driver on August 14, 2016, 06:58:39 PM
No I don't thing so! 😎
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Sixfins on August 16, 2016, 06:21:39 PM
No matter how hard ya try, its hard to one up Einstein, i mean he had it all ya know.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 22, 2016, 05:49:16 PM
I do love my Fleetwood. But I would like a convertible some day.  As I look at them. I think I would like a 1960 convertible. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 11, 2016, 10:26:05 AM
The right tools for the job.   I am at a mechanical stand still.  Next steps from any direction has a starting cost of $2000.  I cannot pull that out for several months.

So I am trying to decide what can be done before the end of the year. I think it is all cosmetic that can be done. So I am going to go through my boxes and find components that I can clean up for reinstall.  And I think I need to start the body work on the doors fenders trunk and hood. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Peter.1961 on September 15, 2016, 07:04:04 PM
I do love my Fleetwood. But I would like a convertible some day.  As I look at them. I think I would like a 1960 convertible. 

From the looks I fully agree.   1960 is gorgeous.  Keep in mind that Cadillac completely changed the suspension for 61 and the 61/62 cars handle much better than the 59/60, especially at higher speeds.  Curvy mountain roads are actually fun in my car, but would be a chore in a stock 60 or 59.   So if you plan on driving (lots, hard, fast), then consider the chassis as well as the looks :-)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 26, 2016, 06:14:52 PM
More evidence of a past accident with my car. The hood support bracket has a bend on each leg.  It almost looks like the design. But compared to my parts car you can see the bend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 27, 2016, 06:42:42 PM
Shop press worked nicely to straighten that part.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 27, 2016, 08:02:02 PM
I blasted the fan pulley at the beginning of the summer.  I painted it with self etch primer.  But I must not have done a good job.  The cancer is back.  The fan belts will wear and keep this area clean.  But I had better pay more attention with the rest.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on September 27, 2016, 08:45:27 PM
I blasted the fan pulley at the beginning of the summer.  I painted it with self etch primer.  But I must not have done a good job.  The cancer is back.  The fan belts will wear and keep this area clean.  But I had better pay more attention with the rest.

remember primer is porous,specially the etch primer I have used
so anything left in primer will rust through
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 28, 2016, 04:52:29 PM
This is krylon industrial semi flat paint.   I love the way is sprays. Lays down nice. Covers without runs.  I am still suspect of the sheen however.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 28, 2016, 04:55:21 PM
We have covered many areas for proper sheen.  However I covered my engine bay with 12 cans of penetrating oil. I dont know if I can trust my sheens.

These are the rear side brackets.  Would these be gloss or semi.  I do not remember talking about these. I assume they would be the same sheen as the inner fender wells.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 28, 2016, 05:32:29 PM
What do you do when you have more time then money.  You put body filler on pitted brackets.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 1962sedandeville on September 29, 2016, 12:05:16 AM
Self etch primer provides no corrosion protection. It is merely an acid wash to prepare the metal to accept topcoat
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on September 29, 2016, 06:47:12 AM
This is krylon industrial semi flat paint.   I love the way is sprays. Lays down nice. Covers without runs.  I am still suspect of the sheen however.

You are correct on being suspect of the sheen.  Original has more gloss.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 03, 2016, 06:38:54 PM
There is not much on my car that I would say is done. Very much work in process.  But this hood latch support is done. Show quality all the way.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: StevenTuck on October 04, 2016, 05:48:42 AM
This is krylon industrial semi flat paint.   I love the way is sprays. Lays down nice. Covers without runs.  I am still suspect of the sheen however.
The sheen should be somewhere between today's gloss and semi-gloss. The pictures of your rear side brackets show it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 07:01:55 AM
Well I cannot find it.  So I have given up on that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 07:02:33 AM
If you can suggest a source I will redo it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on October 04, 2016, 07:17:53 AM
I used VHT gloss black roll bar and chassis paint to paint my voltage regulator cover.  It's not super glossy like a basecoat/clearcoat black, but not dull like the stuff you're using.  Seems just right.  It's a hard epoxy paint that is self priming and goes on over bare metal (actually says on the can not to apply over a primer).

http://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-roll-bar-chassis-paint

Was dirt cheap at my local Canadian Tire store.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 08:03:00 AM
So then for the parts that are supposed to be gloss do you get the appropriate contrast.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on October 04, 2016, 08:33:31 AM
It seemed to be fine for me.  For the $10 I spent for the can, I like it far better than the gloss black Eastwood Chassis black.  Eastwood underhood black is way too dull.  It's hard to describe but it seems right and fits in well with my original inner fenders, for example.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 09:30:04 AM
Well I picked up a can.  I just sprayed it out to test with my others.   It does spray very smooth.  Nice nozzle design.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on October 04, 2016, 09:31:42 AM
I knew you'd like it.  It's good bang for the buck and it's tough as nails.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
Here is Krylon Industrial Semi Flat, VHT Chassis Gloss, Krylon Industrial gloss.   I know it is hard to judge from photos.  The sheen between the glosses looks the same. But the shade seems to be different.  I think that is what makes the right combination. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 11:02:41 AM
OK more crash evidence. The white markings on my radiator seem to be factory. The yellow markings are salvage yard marks. Does this make sense.  Just for fun I should get block stamps to recreate the white marks.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6262 on October 04, 2016, 02:01:27 PM
I used VHT gloss black roll bar and chassis paint to paint my voltage regulator cover.  It's not super glossy like a basecoat/clearcoat black, but not dull like the stuff you're using.  Seems just right.  It's a hard epoxy paint that is self priming and goes on over bare metal (actually says on the can not to apply over a primer).

http://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-roll-bar-chassis-paint

Was dirt cheap at my local Canadian Tire store.

VHT is available over here... Dan, can you recommend a paint for the semi-gloss areas of the engine bay?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 04, 2016, 02:46:26 PM
I think that is what they are recommending for the semi gloss areas.   The old semi gloss was glossier then today's semi gloss.   

So we are thinking about using two different cans called gloss.  Planning that one gloss is different then another.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6262 on October 05, 2016, 01:04:02 AM
That is confusing. The VHT stuff is used for the semi-gloss areas?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on October 05, 2016, 07:09:33 AM
Semi-gloss is kind of misleading.  By semi-gloss, yeah, it's got some gloss, but not glossy like the outside of the vehicle.

My voltage regulator cover is a good example.  The VHT gloss chassis and roll bar black when applied to the cover had almost the same sheen as the inner fenders.  They're not completely dull.  In fact, when you look at them, you can see some reflection.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 07, 2016, 04:50:51 PM
The pits do annoy me.  But I did not want to grind down any of the metal. All in all I am happy.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6262 on October 08, 2016, 05:16:10 PM
Semi-gloss is kind of misleading.  By semi-gloss, yeah, it's got some gloss, but not glossy like the outside of the vehicle.

My voltage regulator cover is a good example.  The VHT gloss chassis and roll bar black when applied to the cover had almost the same sheen as the inner fenders.  They're not completely dull.  In fact, when you look at them, you can see some reflection.

Is there a list of parts with that kind of gloss?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 08, 2016, 06:21:39 PM
There is a list in the authenticity manual.  There was a thread where we discussed the paint colors. 

As I use the VHT more I do not like it as much.  It does not dry fast enough for me and it has a problem with blocking. Paint that is dry to the touch but if it comes into contact with anything for a period of time the paint pulls off the part.  This has been a problem as I try to flip parts over to paint the back. 

I cannot just repaint those areas because it leaves crater like pits.  I have to sand blast and start over. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on October 08, 2016, 06:56:15 PM
Patience, grasshopper.  What's the rush?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 1962sedandeville on October 09, 2016, 03:04:30 PM
Like dan said patience is everthing. Try hanging the parts up with wire. Then you can paint all sides at once then just let it hang untill completely dry and ready to assemble
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 09, 2016, 03:26:29 PM
Well. I have called it for the year.  All the paint primer and body filler has been moved to the basement. 

It has been a good week.  I at least have made a plan of attack on all the little parts. 

I am going back and forth again, about a new custom interior or go back to original. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 10, 2016, 07:07:40 PM
I am forgetting how big my car is.  So I sent my brother in the trunk for scale. Live life for the stories.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 13, 2016, 06:25:19 PM
I thought that my fuel tank vent pipe was completely rusted out.  I was wrong.  It was completely covered in undercoating.  It has some surface pits but it is in great shape.

I am very thankful for the first owner springing for the undercoating
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 13, 2016, 07:19:00 PM
I started with the horns from my parts car.  I got one, I assume the low tone, to signal quite loud and clear.  However this second did not even try to sound.  It has a lot of rattling around in there so I assume the diaphragm is rusted out.  Well I may still have luck with the next pair.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 13, 2016, 08:23:09 PM
Was this sent in the power antenna made on purpose for clearance to something. 

Or is this more evidence of my cars accident.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 14, 2016, 06:25:15 PM
When I took my car apart I did not realize what was possible in restoring hardware.  There were instances where I said as long as I keep a few I will know what size to buy.

Now I wish I had been even more detailed then I was.  I could have saved myself some headache.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 27, 2016, 03:54:59 PM
I finally got around to pulling out my original horns to test them.  Though they cleaned up beautifully I cannot get them to make a peep.  My gut tells me they will work.  I may need to soak in penetrant for a while.  They had mud wasp nests on them so they may just need to be cleaned for a while.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 10, 2016, 11:08:35 AM
Slowly working through all the little bits and pieces. I am not giving as much care to all the pits.  There are to many to worry about them all.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 10, 2016, 01:59:13 PM
Looks like that dent in the antenna was purposeful.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 driver on December 11, 2016, 08:17:07 PM
Yes just looked at mine.  It goes around heater motor.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 12, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
Leaving the parts car in the snow makes me feel like I am doing something wrong.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6Caddy2 on December 13, 2016, 01:55:44 PM
Can't be help, its helping to save another one of its kind!! And that's a good thing! Think of it as cryo-freeze man!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on December 15, 2016, 12:43:25 AM
When my car was just an ugly bondo riddled driver, it spent winters outside too. Eight of them in fact. It didn't hurt the mechanicals and the body was already pretty toasted although this photo doesn't show all the warts. I wouldn't sweat a parts car spending a little more time outdoors.

Side note, Wayne mentioned once how much fun it would be to drive one of these Caddys at a sporting pace on some interesting gravel roads. I did that a few times in the foothills. It was a blast. Now that she is purdy, I take it easy on gravel.

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Perk2 on December 15, 2016, 09:46:00 AM
WOW...Carmen sure has come a looooong ways!
A late bloomer ;-)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on December 17, 2016, 06:02:21 PM

Side note, Wayne mentioned once how much fun it would be to drive one of these Caddys at a sporting pace on some interesting gravel roads. I did that a few times in the foothills. It was a blast. Now that she is purdy, I take it easy on gravel.

wouldn't it  have been a blast to drive Carmen looks as then but mechanical attitude it has now!
can you say yeee haw!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on December 17, 2016, 06:58:27 PM
I should have put that clear 3M film on the body below the skeg line when the paint was fairly new.

I used to do PC support for an oil company and did the occasional service call to pipe line and gas plant locations. Some pretty remote. I would generally take it easy on the way in to make sure I actually arrived and get a chance to scope out the fun bits of the road. Once the job was done I'd let her fly on the way out. These are pretty capable back road cars except for the slow steering. A stock Caddy with faster steering and posi would make a great dirt road car.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on December 17, 2016, 07:18:55 PM
I cannot wait to start doing visits to my customers in my Cadillac.  The funny thing is I mostly go to Ford in Dearborn and Chrysler in auburn hills.  I have not had a GM program in a few years.  I would love to pull up to the GM tech center in the Cadillac.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on December 18, 2016, 01:13:33 AM
People really like seeing these skegs out and about. Just plan on arriving early and leaving late as you will likely have an admiring crowd gathered around in no time! If you take a photo album of what you have done to resurrect your Caddy, plan on staying over night!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 02, 2017, 11:40:59 AM
For the year 2017 the goal is to get the car reassembled and ready for paint. 

Engine rebuild - down to two possible rebuilds
Trans rebuild - rebuilder selected
Body mounts - hardware restored need rubber
AC rebuild - I think I should have these components before paint
Chrome stainless- some parts need to be done and fitted before paint. 

That will leave small parts for 2018.  Maybe driving at the end of 2018. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 02, 2017, 12:31:02 PM
Sorry. Forgot to mention interior.  That will take it to summer 2019.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 14, 2017, 02:32:26 PM
Well I thought I was calling it for the year.  But it is such a nice weekend and I have Monday off. 

I decided to sandblast  my radiator core support and paint it. I might paint the inner fender wells with it.

I lost my bank card this morning and will not be able to get a new one till Tuesday.  So I needed to find something to do that was free.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 14, 2017, 03:31:23 PM
Does anyone know if this clamp is reproduced.  I think it is to dry and brittle to use.

This clamp is on top of the radiator support and holds the battery cable. 

Here is an image of a good clamp. And a broken one in place on my parts car.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 1962sedandeville on January 14, 2017, 05:27:43 PM
Opgi has that plastic hold down
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 14, 2017, 05:39:38 PM
Thank you.  It did not come up under 61 Cadillac specifically. But I found it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6262 on January 15, 2017, 08:26:49 AM
Would you mind sharing the part number? I have no idea how you have found it. The site refuses to search if no specific car and model year is chosen...
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 15, 2017, 09:45:17 AM
https://www.opgi.com/cadillac/CE11491/

The clamp looks correct.  But the locking feature is not. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 15, 2017, 02:08:24 PM
Best layed plans of mice and men.

I got this about 90% clean and ran out of sand.  The home depot stopped selling white sand.  So I will need to go a couple of towns over to get more. I don't see myself doing that before it rains or snows again.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Hotrodln on January 16, 2017, 08:53:49 AM
Hey Carl when i sand blast outside I put a big blue tarp down with a rock in all four corners to keep it from blowing away. then when i run out of sand I fold it up and pour the sand into a big white bucket. I have a screen on top of my sand blast reservoir that i use to catch the stones, big paint chips etc. Works pretty well. I get to reuse most of the sand. some ends up in the yard...but it keeps me going!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 28, 2017, 11:28:25 AM
I decided to sandblast in the snow today.  One more thing done. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 28, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
I am surprised that I was able to remove all 4 radiator insulators without breaking any of the nubbs. 

I don't know why I took the time to do it.  I will be buying 4 new ones anyway.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 29, 2017, 07:55:23 PM
You can do something fast, right, or cheap.  But only 2 at the same time. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 12, 2017, 10:52:54 AM
I decided to buy new heads to start from a better place.  The rust pitting and flaking in the ports and water jacket worried me.  Not anymore.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 17, 2017, 08:30:42 AM
A tragedy has occurred.  I had my IP out to have a look.  I was going to ask my wrapper what he thought about putting leather on it.   But my IP was in great shape so I was not that serious.   The IP was standing on its side.  It fell over and broke through the vinyl.   Now I have to leather wrap it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 24, 2017, 08:52:49 AM
Now that I know I must recover the IP as well, I am looking at my leather choices again.  I still want dark blue and cream. But I may go with a slightly brighter blue then the original IP blue.

These are the colors I am liking currently.  I will need to contact the supplier to see if they can be made in a different grain.  I do not like the heavy grain they currently show.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: rare eldorado on February 24, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
hello clewisiii  . Have you tried to contact just dashes ? They rebuild dash pads and door panels . They may have the color and quality your looking for .
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: StevenTuck on February 24, 2017, 12:05:37 PM
There are vinyl repair companies who can repair the spot and blend the color. I had mine done and you could not even notice the repair. It lasted for a while then I had to have the dash recovered. I had another company beside just dashes do mine.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 24, 2017, 12:28:50 PM
I am going to be doing the interior myself.   I was limited with my choice of blue due to trying to reuse the IP without covering it.

Now that they IP definitely needs repair I am going to modify it a bit to be something more that I like.  The old blue was to dark. You could only tell that it was blue if you put it next to black.  Other then that people thought it was just black.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6262 on February 25, 2017, 07:50:33 AM
In case you want to alter your decision...

I know of Americans who have let this Swedish company (http://autoline.se/) do their dash...

@StevenTuck Who did your dash pad?

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: StevenTuck on March 05, 2017, 06:02:54 AM
Dashboard Restorations
26334 NE Rawson Rd
Brush Prairie WA 98606
360.892.4075

They did mine August 2010 for $844.00
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Sevillian on March 06, 2017, 02:59:46 AM
Another option is Dash Specialists in Oregon.  They did a nice job on my '60 dash, and for about 2/3 the cost of Just Dashes. They often advertise in the Self-Starter. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 06, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
Here are the colors I have narrowed down to.

My style will be blue pleats on seats and doors. Blue wrapped dash and side. Blue edges where appropriate. Rear parcel shelf edge etc.

White to cream wrapped on edges of seats and around door pleats.

Blue carpet to closely match leather.

Cream headliner , steering wheel, and painted lower IP.

I numbered the leathers I have narrowed down to.  Now I must think a little more.  I want a smooth leather. I do not like heavy grain.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 16, 2017, 06:42:11 PM
Giving working from home a whole new meaning. The passenger airbag development for the 2018 Dodge Durango has been developed in my garage and kitchen.  But do not worry. I know what I am doing.

I "climate conditioned" parts for the new Faraday vehicle in the trunk of my car. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 18, 2017, 01:31:00 PM
Now that I have the carpets I have narrowed down my selection. Unfortunatly they only sent me 1 headliner sample and it is to beige.  I am sure I can find another.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 20, 2017, 03:59:42 PM
The plan was to do my engine rebuild at the end of the month.  Now I have to pay for a funeral for a bachelor uncle. Right now I cannot find a cremation service for less then $2600
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 driver on March 20, 2017, 06:55:00 PM
Was he in the military? 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 21, 2017, 12:47:35 PM
Nope.   He went to basic and they rejected him after a week.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 21, 2017, 04:51:23 PM
Here in Flint Michigan this is what goes for restaurant wall art.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2017, 01:09:15 PM
I am doing an inventory of all of my engine parts. Specifically I am verifying that every fastener is accounted for. I will clean and repackage them all before I send to the machine shop.

In cleaning I got a better look at one of my motor mounts.  I do not think this deformation is from torque in the motor. It may be more evidence of my car's past accident.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2017, 01:10:45 PM
Another note I did not realize the motor mounts were on the engine before painting.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2017, 01:42:18 PM
Look at this pore I found in my crank shaft bearing cap. I do not think this would pass quality control today
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
I found my original spare tire cover.  I assumed I threw it away.  It was under my engine parts.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 02, 2017, 01:44:51 PM
Sorry pic.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Jeffrey A. Rogers on April 04, 2017, 12:10:55 PM
Do you need another set of motor mounts?
Jeff
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 04, 2017, 01:53:36 PM
I bought a set the moment I found this issue.  I knew I was going to buy new ones anyway.   Now I have it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 11, 2017, 04:44:13 PM
Chrome is fun.  It still needs to be replated. But it looks so good.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 12, 2017, 07:08:05 AM
Debating how detailed I should be wet sanding the firewall. It is mostly completely covered.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: russ austin on April 12, 2017, 07:12:48 AM
Under the vent cowl the body color. The fire wall will look better in black.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on April 12, 2017, 07:34:19 PM
Depends on how correct you want to be. Firewall was body colour until 1965 and the cowl area was black under the cowl grill for cosmetic purposes.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: russ austin on April 12, 2017, 07:48:32 PM
It was a service bulletin that the fire wall went black mid year production, for either the 63 or 64.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 14, 2017, 07:07:17 AM
I have to assume that restoring a convertible is probably easier then restoring a Fleetwood.  Block sanding that big roof with the profiles of the roof drip edge is very time consuming.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 14, 2017, 11:16:31 AM
When I took my body off the frame, one of my body mounts spun.  I had to cut the bolt to get it off. 

Now it is time to fix it. I am removing the floor sections to get to the inside of the mount.

I tried to cheat and just weld the nut In place to the body.  It did not work. And I am secretly happy it did not work.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on April 14, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
I have to assume that restoring a convertible is probably easier then restoring a Fleetwood.  Block sanding that big roof with the profiles of the roof drip edge is very time consuming.
 

There are more people out there that can block sand properly than replace a convertible top. Doing a top is an art form
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 15, 2017, 11:13:26 AM
I attempt to think and plan long term.

In 1994 my grandfather built my pole barn. The guy he hired to do it had never built one before and did not know what he was doing. He poured the concrete flooring the rain. And it sat under water for 3 days. Because of this it never cured properly. It can never be swept clean. The surface just dusts and erodes. 

By the end of this year or beginning of next year I plan to paint my car. Because of this dust issue it would never be a good idea to paint or store my freshly painted car in this situation.

So in preparation for this I am going to go a little drastic. I will empty out my barn and pour a new slab this summer. I will also take this opportunity to extend it by 400 square feet. Not an expense I was planning but I think it will pay dividends over the years.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on April 15, 2017, 06:24:09 PM
You may be able to have an epoxy applied over the floor. Or a skim coat of concrete applied over it.

When I paint, I always wet my floor first though.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 15, 2017, 07:03:01 PM
The skim coat has been tried. At 1/4 inch thick it releases from the surface after 6 months. .   I am going to add a 2 inch thick pour with fiberglass reinforcement. That way I only need to rely on the lower slab as a base.  The top pour will stay together on its own. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 23, 2017, 09:40:30 AM
After 3 years of owning my car.  Stripping it completely, blowing it out, and flipping it over a hundred times on the rotisserie, these keep falling out.  Two this weekend. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: russ austin on April 23, 2017, 10:11:35 AM
Petrified blueberries?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 23, 2017, 10:27:19 AM
Mouse tucked away acorns.  I assume these ones fell loose while cutting on the floor.  The first few days I found hundreds.   None have fallen out in the last few months.  Until this weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Jeffrey A. Rogers on April 24, 2017, 11:40:21 AM
That's funny!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 25, 2017, 11:19:22 AM
I like finding old school shops to work on my car.  They are getting harder to find. 

I am in an Auto Glass shop in Flint Michigan that has been in operation in this location since 1955. 

Here is a picture of their cash register.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: arch62 on April 25, 2017, 02:46:35 PM
Am sure the IRS is very impressed with them and is already looking under fender skirts and mattresses.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 25, 2017, 02:58:06 PM
Well I know they had been there since 55 because all of the state Tax permits from 55 to today were posted on one wall.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 26, 2017, 06:42:49 AM
I had an area that was oil canning last year.  I had to hammer the metal to stiffen it up. At the time I had one layer of body filler on the car when I hammered. Over the winter cracks from that hammering transfered through the top.  I tried to sand them all out yesterday.  I went until they were gone to the eye.  But with a layer of epoxy over it I can see them again.  I will just take this area down to bare metal and start over.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: CrimsonCad on April 27, 2017, 06:06:56 PM
Great work on your Fleetwood, Clewisiii! It's a slow process but worth it in the end!  :)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on April 29, 2017, 11:56:31 AM
I have another one.  My new daily driver is a Cadillac XTS.  Her name is Mrs. Stone.

Nearly the same color as my 61.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 02, 2017, 11:50:23 AM
To do my roof repair I used chemical first, then sanded to get back to metal.  I tried hammering the metal to get rid of the remaining oil canning.  I felt like I was just chasing a bubble. So I tried heat.  It work well but very quick. I had to be careful. It was going really well until one spot decided to bend in not out.  I hammered it back out then heated the perimeter around the bubble.  It worked very well. I applied one coat of epoxy last night. I may try another today.  I will restart the roof bodywork this weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 17, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
I did it. I ordered my complete disc brake kit.  $1800. I probably could have saved some money piecing it from multiple sources. But now I can complain to one person if I have a problem.

It comes with the new style master booster. I do not know if I am going to use it. I still want to use the 62 master booster to keep it some what looking stock.

But it will be at least a year and a half till I am ready to install the booster.

Doing things a little out of sequence I think my next big purchase will be my leather.  I am buying enough to nearly do the car twice. A little insurance in case of problems or practice sewing.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 24, 2017, 09:49:47 AM
I picked up the foam today. I wanted enough to do the interior twice. Just in case. 

I think I may have over did it.  I had to put all of this in my XTS. It all fit though.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 26, 2017, 04:24:02 PM
The repair of the roof block sanding is going well. I do not have as many problem areas as the first time.

The only thing that bothers me are the roof support straps. The valley between the two straps bends down. It creates a point above each strap that the sanding block rocks on. I am not sure how many layers of primer it will take to overcome this.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on May 27, 2017, 11:23:15 AM
I use a dry powder guide coat. The spray on guide coat required to much dry time of it gummed up my paper.

I was impressed how the guide coat showed off the primer overlap lines.  I guess it really does its job.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 02, 2017, 04:57:30 PM
I picked up a nicer set of hub cap medallians. We will see how many time I get a "nicer" set until I can finally put them on the car.

By the way. Didn't we find two versions of the 61 crest. I think we found some that did and did not have the ducks. Does anyone remember that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 03, 2017, 04:10:37 PM
Ok,  I f#&+#d up.  I did the math for my barn extension a month ago. I bought the wood a few weeks ago.  I dug up the sod and started setting posts. I measured for five posts 10ft on center.  After setting the first I realised I did my math and bought the lumber for 8 feet on center.

So now I will have a wall section at 10, 6, then the rest 8. 
I am tired.  And the ground is still to wet. The hole was collapsing faster then I could dig it out. So I will wait a week or two before I dig the rest.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 07, 2017, 06:04:23 PM
4 down. I will do one more each night till the weekend.  If I am energetic I will add the header and rim boards on the weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 13, 2017, 05:29:36 PM
My front disc brake kit showed up today.  It did not come with instructions but I have common sense.  They said the rear kit and master booster will come on Thursday.  He said the e brake cables will not be in the kit. After I install the rear brakes I need to take measurements and they will create the cables to size.

Maybe instructions will be in one of the other boxes.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 13, 2017, 06:49:52 PM
I would like to know what vehicle these rotors calipers and brake pads came from. Just for replacement reasons.  The kit did not come with any nuts. Not the castle nut or nuts for the three bolts to attach the brackets. 

I will call them to verify my set up before I start rolling on it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 driver on June 13, 2017, 10:15:22 PM
Who did you buy them from and is the above front or back?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 14, 2017, 06:09:40 AM
I bought them from Classic Disc Brakes in Texas. 
The image is a front brake.  I have not gotten the rears yet.

I bought from them just because it was a complete 4 wheel disc set.  I get to complain to one person if there is a problem.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 14, 2017, 08:36:11 PM
So far I am unable to install this brake kit.  I am having clearance issues to the lower control arm and the spindle.
I am talking to the company.  I will let you know what I come up with.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 17, 2017, 08:38:29 PM
I received my rear kit today.  Everything was going good with the install, UNTIL.

I tried to install the rotors and they would not fit over the hub.  I will work with the company to get this corrected.  I will let you know how it all works out.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: rare eldorado on June 18, 2017, 08:57:41 AM
How about original ? Lot less expensive no problems.Is this a well known company ?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 18, 2017, 10:19:42 AM
I plan to tow a trailer. So I do not want drums.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on June 19, 2017, 07:46:36 AM
I think I have decided to avoid over restoring the engine bay.  I want to drive this car I do not want to be worried about it.
When I bead blasted the radiator core support the factory paint runs were the thickest areas.  I decided to not blast to remove all the runs.  So they are now still present on my finished core support.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 14, 2017, 08:27:14 PM
I know I am not revealing any mysteries here. But I was surprised how quickly naval jelly cleaned up the stainless.  Just a quick wipe on and off and it cleaned more then it did with metal polish and a tooth brush. 

I want to pick my best six wheel disc to restore.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: FINCADI on July 14, 2017, 09:20:59 PM
 ::)
I have another one.  My new daily driver is a Cadillac XTS.  Her name is Mrs. Stone.

Nearly the same color as my 61.

Carl,I traded in our 2013 XTS AWD on April 15th for a 2017 XT5 AWD. We loved the XTS but my wife wanted to go back to the SUV (Had a 2012 SRX before).  What really sucked is that before the 2017 was 3 weeks old (less than 250 miles on odometer) someone rear ended me at a stoplight and did $5000.00 in damages.  Thank goodness for a great body shop who got it looking good as new again. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 14, 2017, 09:40:27 PM
I thought about the SRX.  But I have never been a fan of SUVs.   I secretly like not being able to do everything with my car.

With just a sedan people do not ask you to help them move.  And I am not taking anyone's dog anywhere.

However.  Till now all of my cars have been silver.  The sapphire blue XTS gets dirty way to fast.  I need to wash it again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: FINCADI on July 14, 2017, 10:56:25 PM
I thought about the SRX.  But I have never been a fan of SUVs.   I secretly like not being able to do everything with my car.

With just a sedan people do not ask you to help them move.  And I am not taking anyone's dog anywhere.

However.  Till now all of my cars have been silver.  The sapphire blue XTS gets dirty way to fast.  I need to wash it again tomorrow.
I like the sedans better as well, but since it is my wife's car she got to choose.  I personally would have selected the new CT6 as it is larger and I am 6'3" and I liked the ride.  At least she agreed to a different color as the last four were that bland tan/gold color that I believe was called Silver Coast Metallic (nothing silver about it).  I like the sapphire blue.  I had a 1998 Buick Park Avenue Ultra that was dark blue metallic that was a gorgeous car, but it did show all the dust and dirt real easy.
 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6Caddy2 on July 15, 2017, 08:06:40 AM
Thanks for the tip on naval jelly clewisiii! I'm getting ready to clean up 5 hubcaps myself and use the best 4. I totally forgot about that product!! Thanks again!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 18, 2017, 04:39:14 PM
Here is my general cost chart.  I did not get that detailed.  There are many small $50 costs.

But it is looking like $40,000 so far and that does not include purchasing the car.  And I am doing many things myself.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 18, 2017, 05:04:04 PM
You know what I should do is pair off the costs chart with the vendors and hyperlinks to websites.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Peter.1961 on July 19, 2017, 09:59:06 AM
Carl, thank you for putting this out there. This looks pretty much in line with where I will come out when all is said and done (you have a number of jobs on here I haven't tackled yet)

I think I beat your numbers in some areas (eg I bought a freshly rescheduled rear bumper around $1.200 including the tail light surrounds) but spent more in others (eg the trans had to go to the shop several times to chase down a crack in the Taurus housing that only opened under load)

It is good to put this numbers out in the open to tell people what they are signing up for. It is my experience that many folks throw out lower numbers and so a newcomer may find themselves blindsided and feeling like a sticker when they see the bill. The truth is, quality parts for a Cadillac aren't cheap.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 19, 2017, 11:04:02 AM
I think I will keep it up and expand the list. 

I need to add $1000 for wiring harness replacement and repair

$600 for replacement Cadillac and Fleetwood badges.
And many other points.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: FINCADI on July 19, 2017, 08:52:42 PM
Carl, the price itemization is fantastic.  I have found that what I have spent on mine pretty much aligns with what you have listed cost wise.  Biggest difference for me was re-paint last year.  Since my car was not a frame off he spent a lot of time removing chrome, trim, etc...including removing the hood, trunk and doors, etc...Body guy had my car 8 months from beginning to finish. He did a fantastic job but it was $8,000.  I don't think that price was out of line for the time spent and the quality of the finished product so I feel pretty good about it.  My next project is having the interior seats re-upholstered.  Not sure what to expect on expense to have this done as I want to use correct fabrics (cloth, leather and vinyl).  Upholstery shop I have used over the last 30 years has always done beautiful work but it is owned/operated by one guy who has to be approaching 80 years old.  The older he gets the longer it takes him which is understandable, but his prices have gone skyrocket since he is in high demand and really has more work than he can handle in a timely fashion.  Often times takes 6 months or longer just to get your car in and then it can take a month or more to get it back.  Does anyone have any idea of what I should expect to pay to have just the seats done on a 61' Coupe deVille with cloth, leather and vinyl combinations used (he usually get the fabrics, etc....from SMS)? I have not yet asked him what he would charge but from recent experience within the last five years on another car I would not be surprised if he told me 3500 to 4000 just for the seats.  I don't mind paying extra for quality work, but I also don't want to pay more than is within reason.  Does anyone mind sharing with me what they have paid for re-upholstering seats with correct fabrics, or about what I should expect?  Thanks, Doug         
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 19, 2017, 09:08:14 PM
My last SMS Prices.

Fabric    $99 a yard
Leather  $13.95 a Foot
Vinyl      $55 a yard
Headliner  $265
Carpet      $59 a yard

My prices to have the interior done were between $7,000 and $15,000
And that did not include all materials.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: FINCADI on July 19, 2017, 09:50:11 PM
Oh my gosh, thanks for the warning.  I only need the seats done as carpeting is already done, and everything else is in very good condition.  Does your price estimate include door panels, headliner and carpet?     
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 19, 2017, 09:53:52 PM
It was for everything installed.  But I was providing leather.

The labor can be high.  And remember there is carpet on the back of the front seat.

My car has blind pleats.  Here is a tutorial of a guy sewing samples.  It is hypnotic watching him sew.  You can see how it is time consuming doing this.  And if you screw up a seam you scrap a large piece of leather.

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 19, 2017, 10:16:41 PM
Now do three of those 5 feet long each and profile cut along the edges to match the form in the seat.  He calculates the shrink distance of an individual pleat.  But I do not know how that would effect a curve on the edge.  It would really mess up your radiuses.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 24, 2017, 04:50:50 PM
OK I am getting flaky.

Last night I was hit with the desire to restore the original interior as it was.  I like it.  But I do not think it would look that cool.  Plus purposefully changing it gives you freedom for all the little details and features where you cannot restore the original.

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6262 on July 25, 2017, 11:54:54 AM
Hi Carl, usually I am reluctant to comment on such issues because it is your car and you can do with it whatever you like. And different preferences are what makes the world interesting. But it seems it is a thing that you want to discuss since you have brought up the topic more than once. So now there is an exception to the rule that I do not discuss issues which affect personal tastes rather than plain facts.

I have always admired your attention to original details and your quest for knowledge about factory-correctness. Your posts dealing with these things are a great contribution to this forum. Therefore I wonder why you want to go for a custom interior on a car that is otherwise so meticously trimmed to factory specifications (I do not count the disc brakes because you want them for trailering). For that reason my humble opinion is that a restoration to original would much better suit your previous work, intentions and the resulting car itself.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on July 25, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
My main goal for a new interior was just because automotive leather interior development is my business.  So it would have been a mark of pride in my profession to have the new all leather interior.

My first impression of the original blue on blue in the car, was I would feel like I was driving in a funeral procession.  It did not pop enough.

But the more I look at it the more I like it.   The color does not bother me anymore.  But now my issue would be with the durability of the fabric if I kept it.  It feels like polyester.  I like the bar pattern in the original fabric.  I would not be able to replicate that in leather.

I need to come up with a material list and get a complete quote from SMS for all the fabric and leather.  Their matched leather unfortunately was $13.95 a square foot.  4 times my leather price.  But I would not need as much of it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 01, 2017, 01:44:39 PM
Took some time to clean and dust the body and I got more mouse nest out of the rockers.  I think this is the last.  I am saving it for the stories.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 04, 2017, 08:46:37 PM
I look forward to the day that I can be in my 61, stuck in Metro Detroit morning rush hour traffic.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 06, 2017, 08:56:42 AM
My front wheels are back on the ground for the first time in 2 years. I am still waiting on a few parts to do the rear.  I chased all the threads on the captured body mounts and did a light coat of antisieze.

I will reuse the old body mounts for now and reassemble the body.  I want to start body work on the doors and fenders. That will be easy to do in the fall/winter. Maybe in 2 months this will start looking like a car again.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 24, 2017, 04:05:01 PM
My adapters came in today and they are a perfect fit.  The wheels are now back on the ground for the first time in 2 years.  All wheel drive brakes maintaining the stock wheels hub centric. 

I will attempt to put the body on the frame this weekend. I need to finish the body work.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 25, 2017, 08:22:11 PM
The first step of the weekend is done. The body is back on the frame.  Doing this myself was very sketchy and dangerous. 

My goal is to set the fenders doors and hoods this weekend.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6Caddy2 on August 26, 2017, 10:14:59 AM
Looking good so far Carl!!! Suspension components and the disc brakes look outstanding!!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 26, 2017, 10:28:57 AM
Thank You. It has been exactly 3 years since purchase.  I am happy with the progress.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: rare eldorado on August 26, 2017, 01:08:36 PM
everything looks great...would it not be easy to paint the body and parts first and then assemble the car ?rather then doing it twice
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 26, 2017, 01:49:53 PM
I need to match the body work from panel to panel.  So I have do assemble for that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 26, 2017, 04:39:33 PM
All. I need some advice. 

I am working through my temporary assembly. I need to install the doors and hinges.  My hinges are crusty but they functioned perfectly before disassembly. 

Can I bead blast these without harming the function of the pins. Are replacement pins available.  What are your thoughts.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: CrimsonCad on August 27, 2017, 03:33:16 AM
I used 66 Impala pins on mine only because I already had the new pins. They are longer than the Caddy ones so I cut them to size, ground the ends to the cone shape of the original ones and then gently cut the locking circlip slot around the pin with a thin cutting disc. Worked a treat!  :)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: rare eldorado on August 27, 2017, 08:59:21 AM
Carl Bead blasting will not hurt the hinges or the pins .If you need new pins ,,usa parts or opgi has some kits .there are also other supplyers that sell replacement pins.Most times it is the drivers door that would need new pins ...not always .If you are bead blasting it is best to use glass .With the quality of your restoration do you have a blast cabnet or send it out ?
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 27, 2017, 09:04:36 AM
Yes. I have a blast cabinet with glass beads. My cabinet light fixture went out yesterday. So I am taking a breather and looking at the sheet metal.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 27, 2017, 09:06:02 AM
Just for fun.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 29, 2017, 08:37:04 AM
I did not think about it till I did this assembly.  But the entire front clip only has one bolt to the frame in the center of the core support. Supporting core support and both fenders.
I guess I did not pay that much attention when I disassembled it.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on August 29, 2017, 08:23:33 PM
From time to time I ask myself why am I putting in this much effort.  It is a Fleetwood.  It will not be valuable.  And I am a novice so I am not even doing the "right" way with the best of quality anyway. 

So why don't I just fill the rust holes with bondo.  Why do all this on something that will not be worth it.

I guess it is pride and practice.   I like challenging myself.  And I like learning.  Maybe the next one will be an Eldorado with factory air.  I will have learned how to restore the AC already.  Once my student loans are paid off it will be the biggest raise in my paycheck in my life.  I could afford to do one of these cars every two years by then.  I hope I will have learned what I needed and will be ready.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on September 19, 2017, 03:15:49 PM
I finally got brave enough to bead blast some hinges.  They came out nice. I need to buy a new box of abrasive material.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 01, 2017, 11:00:37 AM
Turning my car sideways is far more convenient.  Plenty of room around all sides to handle body panels and work around them.  I am thinking about test fitting everything  on the front end in this step. I still need to pick up some hard wood for making metal forms.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 08, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
The repair of both passenger doors is complete. Setting the door and adjusting the door hinges seems to be easy.
I need more media to bead blast more hinges.

The hood is an issue. Fitting it to the fenders is a chore. I know my fenders were shimmed toward the back of the fenders. But it seems to be off by 3/8. There were not that many shims. I am not looking forward to making the adjustments when it is a freshly painted surface.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 08, 2017, 06:49:16 PM
One thing I noticed.  My 61 is only a foot and a half longer than my XTS. Seemed bigger then that.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on October 08, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
If you're referring to the hood sitting higher than the fender, you need to loosen the two bolts at the hinge to the inner fender bracket and raise the hinge at that location. That will angle the hinge up at the front bringing the back of the hood down and not shimming up the fender.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 15, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
I finally ran a LAN line out to my barn. I dug a 150ft trench yesterday in the rain. But now I have Netflix while working on my car and I can post to this forum from the barn. 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on October 15, 2017, 11:03:45 AM
Cool, nothing like being connected. Just as long as you don't get pulled in to binge watching something!  ::)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on October 15, 2017, 12:13:33 PM
I like the cartoon Archer. I have all the seasons on DVD.  That is what I had been watching. In the past two years I have watched that series at least 20 times while working on my car.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on October 15, 2017, 12:19:59 PM
Haha, it is pretty funny. I haven't seen all of the episodes though as it's best to watch it when my daughters aren't around. I guess a TV in the garage would solve that problem!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: russ austin on October 16, 2017, 06:47:00 PM
Be sure to cover up the web cam when surfing porn. You don't want hackers to see you being entertained.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 16, 2017, 11:16:35 AM
A friend at work is moving back to Germany at the end of the year.  He is planning what car to buy when he gets home.
He was looking at buying a Skoda for 50,000 Euro after options.  I have him now looking at Cadillac XT5s. 

The base model for 50,000Euro already includes all and more options that he was adding to the Skoda.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 23, 2017, 10:44:48 AM
First night of the long weekend and I start welding in more patch panels.  And run out of shielding gas.  Of course.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 23, 2017, 09:57:47 PM
First night of the long weekend and I start welding in more patch panels.  And run out of shielding gas.  Of course.

sounds about right , either gas or wire I usually run out of about 5 minutes after store closes on said long weekend

the place I go to is pretty cool, when I notice I am getting really low, I stop in and they give me another bottle before  I return mine so I can use up every drop of that expensive gas and I being in the empty when it is just that
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 23, 2017, 10:01:00 PM
I need to just buy some large tanks so I can have them filled anywhere.  It is weird having a 20 year lease on a medium tank.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on November 23, 2017, 10:03:41 PM
I need to just buy some large tanks so I can have them filled anywhere.  It is weird having a 20 year lease on a medium tank.

I can only buy the super small tank in Canada,anything over 24''tall(whatever volume that works out to) cannot be owned by a consumer
I just bought a small tank to take with me when I go to the sand dunes ,just in case I break something I can now weld it up with my 110v mig
 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on November 23, 2017, 10:28:11 PM
That does suck.  Sorry
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 16, 2018, 01:49:42 PM
I have not posted an update in a while so I thought I should.
I have done nothing.  I have barely cleaned my garage or put tools away since the last time I posted an update.
I did fill my shielding gas tank. I have not hooked it up yet.
It needs to be warmer.  I tried lighting a fire in my barn a while ago but I could not get it over 40 degrees.

Yesterday I found a new area body shop willing to do old cars.  I asked for info out of curiosity.  He said $10,000 and maybe 7 months to do the body and paint.  I still want to do it myself.  I will not learn if I do not try.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62 Coupe on January 17, 2018, 01:15:10 AM
If you do your own body work, I can certainly help with tips and photos. You will learn a lot and expend a lot of energy but will be in charge of the resukts and save a lot of money. I chickened out on painting mine but I work out of a two car garage in a residential neighborhood and didn't want to get over spray all over my garage etc. The primer pretty much cleans up as dust but I was worried the paint might be different. I have a friend with an acreage who is set up for painting so I bought the supplies and he painted it for $2,000.

If I had his space I would have tried painting it myself. I got fairly good at painting as I applied primer and sanded it off many times over.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Jeffrey A. Rogers on January 18, 2018, 01:05:45 PM
If I can do it, so can you.

Your friend,

Jeff Rogers
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 18, 2018, 01:38:33 PM
It is my car, and it is my pride.  But every once in a while I have to tell myself it is just a 4 door.
It is a good first time practice car.  Because I would like to do this again.
But my efforts will never be "worth it"  it is just something I want to do.

I give my friends the example of skiing.  They spend lots of money on it but is it worth it?
It is money thrown at a hobby just the same.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Jeffrey A. Rogers on January 18, 2018, 07:36:16 PM
I just got back from the tool store, bought my self a sheet metal break!  :)

(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.MzzLrHrKoS7zeX0WWaDZswHaFN&pid=15.1&P=0&w=242&h=171)
Just for inspiration. :)
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 18, 2018, 08:47:29 PM
How Much
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Jeffrey A. Rogers on January 19, 2018, 12:26:52 PM
$400.00

But, before comparing that price to a much lower price you might pay, consider my location.  Shipping to Alaska is often treated as "over seas".

Ka-Ching!!!

Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 19, 2018, 06:36:53 PM
How wide is that
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Jeffrey A. Rogers on January 23, 2018, 12:31:12 PM
A little one, just 24 inches, but perfect for what I'm trying to do.

Which is to fold up that stuff!  Rear wheel well - fender skirt attachments.

I'm hoping to get everything ready, then get myself a wire feed welder, and then finally put that all together again.

My next toy, a drill press.  I gotta drill a bunch of holes all along the seems in order to weld.

Imagine.... A convertible.... Without rust.    :o   Bends my brain!

A huge difference from the pile of oxidation and dirt I towed home.



Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 62droptop on January 24, 2018, 09:02:01 PM
cool, a break will be very handy
I use  mine all the time for just about everything you can imagine
you can get a little hand hole  punch to poke holes in the metal to spot weld in the new stuff
a gas shield wire feed welder will be your new best friend!

great job on the car so far!
 
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 27, 2018, 01:01:30 PM
So the way I work is I spend 50 to 75% of my time thinking about the work I need to do. This bugs some people but it prevents me from doing twice the work due to correcting errors. I like to visualize each step many times before I actually do it.

That helps because I just found a new leather. This is called rhapsody blue from Wollsdorf. It is currently an option on Lincoln. This is the color and grain I have been looking for. It blends with the carpet better then my last option. I contacted the US sales rep. He will sell to me for 44 Euro a meter. About $800 for 5 hides. The one bad thing is I would have to pay shipping from Austria. There is a new Ford program coming to my plant in Michigan, we will be ordering Wollsdorf there in about 6 months. I plan to hold of buying and piggy back my order on that shipment.

The next I need to try to get Eagle Ottawa leather in Cashmere Ceramic. Up till now they have said they will not sell directly to me. I will work on that. That cream color paired with the blue is my goal. It matches the headliner I found as well.

I hate the after market leathers. The heavy embossed grains are not to my liking. Plus this actual production Automotive leather is a little more durable.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 27, 2018, 02:53:38 PM
I finally got around to welding that patch in the door. Now to grind the welds down.

Three doors done one to go. The Last needs some more fabrication then what I have done to date.

I have a row of stitch holes on the lip of the hood. I will replace the metal but do it in sections.

I have one small three inch area on the trunk. Will be easy

And last fender bottoms. Both sides. With a break and shrinker  stretcher I can make those myself. I have already made patterns.

I need to get all of the body seams and gaps lined up after the welding. I am looking forward to filler priming and sanding.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 27, 2018, 04:15:00 PM
Lot of fun. Layer out the material and made 4 patterns for my last door. I need to buy those tools because these areas have compound curves.

There is 1 more spot on the door that will need to be patched. But it is relatively flat.

I started fitting with the front fenders and hood again. The fenders looked better very quickly. The front of the hood and fenders payed out right.

But I cannot get the back of the hood to go down enough. This is just me working on it alone. If I had more hands I might be able to get more.

All in all after a couple of months I am feeling energized again. I hope I can get the car ready for paint this year. I was a year ahead of schedule. Now I think I am a year behind. But my schedule was arbitrary. I have no need to be finished soon.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on January 28, 2018, 08:06:23 PM
Pulled up to my garage and thought this is a great shot.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: FINCADI on January 28, 2018, 11:00:14 PM
Pulled up to my garage and thought this is a great shot.

I agree, great photo!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Perk2 on January 29, 2018, 11:34:15 AM
I agree too!!!
Calendar material!!
Thanks for sharing Carl
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 13, 2018, 06:51:19 PM
I splurged and bought fender bottom patch panels from USA auto parts. $250 for the pair. It will take me a while to get up the nerve to cut it off.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: 6Caddy2 on February 14, 2018, 08:51:54 AM
WOW!!!! Those look nice, nothing like fresh metal! From what I've seen Carl, when your ready to cut them off the new ones will be "spot on"!!!
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on February 18, 2018, 07:50:29 PM
I will take the fenders off to weld in the repair.  I thought about doing it on the vehicle to help in lining up the metal. But I decided it is straight forward and not be hard to straighten latter.

I finished bead blasting and painting primer on my hinges.  I will mount the doors the check them to each other.  I still need to sandblast the door I got from russ. It did snow this weekend so that got delayed.  From what I can tell the stamping and hole differences from 61 to 62 are contained in one 6 by 12 inch area.  I will cut that section out of my door and weld it into the new one.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 09, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
Harbor Freight sale. I bought one for paint supplies and one full of sand paper and block sanders.

I am fortunate to have room. But what I have been lacking is closed storage.

My next shop expense is a large bolt bin.  I have way to many coffee cans and old plastic bins that can no longer be seen through.
Title: Re: Carl's 61 Fleetwood
Post by: Clewisiii on March 11, 2018, 05:46:10 PM
So I am working through all of the random parts. I have a box for each door. I want to start going through them. I need to verify, clean, or replace all the fasteners.

I need to organize a coherent plan to get through this. I think I am going to make a schedule in excel and list my process steps.

Well to give you a picture to look at here is this. I am trying to polish the metal and I just realized one of the rear headlight fillers has a broken tab. I hope the parts car parts are good. I am still concerned about how I will clean and polish these. The undercuts seem impossible